bye bye moon
Moon
The way i look at the world, would make you go blind
Posts: 192
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Post by bye bye moon on Apr 11, 2010 9:32:14 GMT -5
So , i want to hear your thoughts on Israel and Palestines current situation.. what do you think? Should Israel stay there and keep getting bombed by Palestine without reacting or should they react and bomb the hell out of Palestine!
TELL ME!
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Post by Piccard on Apr 11, 2010 10:36:52 GMT -5
Well, I'm a bit divided on the whole Israel-Palestine conflict. On the Israelis' side of things, their people have been oppression for centuries, with the inquisition, being blamed for plagues and most recently, the Holocaust, so having a jewish state, free of persecution would have been nice. On the Palestinian's side of the coin, their native land was subject to an influx of colonists and shoved into the smaller and smaller territories over time. So as my stance on it; I just wish they could find a compromise and share the land equally, but I'm favoring the Palestinians simply for the reason that they were there first. ( I may come back to this later, but for now I don't have enough time to add anything more.)
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Engesa Green once more
Meteor
Once upon a time there was a suggestion that we should all write our names on our profile. I'm Ebbe.
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Post by Engesa Green once more on Apr 11, 2010 14:15:00 GMT -5
I think the jewish was actually there even before the palestinians but I'm not sure about that... Will check it!
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Post by lpisg on Apr 11, 2010 14:26:20 GMT -5
i think israel isnt as nice as alot of people think/believe...I dont want to do a history review now, but whenever Israel is doing something wrong like bombing / attacking innocent people, its always accepted, because of the holocaust and everthing during the middle age.....however, i believe that has to stop!We must learn from history, and in my opinion Israel is often using their history to justify their actions...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2010 17:48:04 GMT -5
I agree with what Ipisg says. Israel is abusing their history and I find that sickening. I'm not saying that I have a solution to the conflict, but if the USA wasn't so scared of their Jewish lobbyists, the problem would have been solved a long time ago.. Or Europe for that matter.. Or if Britain didn't act so stupid after WWII
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Post by eod89 on Apr 12, 2010 18:50:43 GMT -5
Denny Crane speaking to a lawyer about Isreal.
Denny: You people have an overreacting problem, you do know that? Lawyer: [offended] "We people?" Denny: Yeah, same thing in Lebanon. They grab a few soldiers, you respond with overkill. And that's a problem. Bethany: Are you saying Israel doesn't have the right to defend itself? Denny: Well, of course, they do! But you can't blow up a country just because you get mad! Only the United States enjoys that privilege. We're a superpower; God is on our side.
All debates could be spiced up with a bit of Boston Legal. On a more serious note, I don't think I have enough information to make an informed decision about who is wrong.
Both sides have their reasons for doing what they are doing, and my judging—from the outside—seems inappropriate.
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bye bye moon
Moon
The way i look at the world, would make you go blind
Posts: 192
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Post by bye bye moon on Apr 12, 2010 19:15:50 GMT -5
The problem with palestine here is that they think they can do whatever they want, so they bomb israel year round, and the second israel gets mad, and starts blowing them up then they think they can go crying to the UN
"If your afraid of the bear, dont wake it up, and if you do wake it up, dont cry when he bites your head off!!"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2010 19:18:29 GMT -5
wow that's based on not even one fact
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bye bye moon
Moon
The way i look at the world, would make you go blind
Posts: 192
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Post by bye bye moon on Apr 12, 2010 19:21:41 GMT -5
Ofcourse it is! Take easter as an example! Just a few weeks ago, palestine began to bomb the gaza strip, on FREAKING EASTER!! So israel goes ahead and sends 22 missles to palestine, not even half of what they sent! What happens? The next day Palestine goes crying about how israel is bombing them! Come on man!
If you wanna play, then you gotta take the hits
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2010 19:42:50 GMT -5
Dude that's retarded, you're not getting your facts straight at all. The Israeli government is repressing the Palestines much like they were repressed by the Nazis (Gaza doesn't differ much from a ghetto). They reduce or even cut off medical and food supplies to Gaza. They murder innocent civilians and steal their homes. What do you expect them to do? Just sit there and let it happen.
Your metaphors about "playing" and "waking up the bear" are just downright grotesque. You seem to forget that after WWII the British "gave" the region which is now called Israel to the Jewish population that didn't get killed in WWII out of pity. BUT there were people already living there. As the map ^^ shows, the Israeli government then started systematically rooting out the Palestine people, even committing genocide (seems familiar doesn't it?). Guess the Jews learned from history, didn't they.
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bye bye moon
Moon
The way i look at the world, would make you go blind
Posts: 192
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Post by bye bye moon on Apr 12, 2010 19:53:08 GMT -5
Okay if you gonna call bull then link it! I have never in my life seen a god damn single piece of evidence that would call on the israelis as genocidal maniacs! Come on, who are the ones, that strap bombs to their chest, and masacre their own set of beliefs for political and economical power!? First, of all the israelis had that land LONG before the palestines did. And not just beacuse the "bible says so" beacuse history has taught us so. THE WHOLE REGION is made up of sacred israeli lands. Are you forgetting that PALESTINE and ISRAELIS were once ONE PEOPLE?
They are BOTH sons of Abraham, and that land was FIRST called ISRAEL. So thats one for a history lesson. PLUS Palestine bombs FIRST, therfore israel is only DEFENDING themselves, and you can check those statments, from almost ANY and EVREY source you find!
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Post by IMAGINARYphilosophy on Apr 12, 2010 20:42:38 GMT -5
So , i want to hear your thoughts on Israel and Palestines current situation.. what do you think? Should Israel stay there and keep getting bombed by Palestine without reacting or should they react and bomb the hell out of Palestine! TELL ME! This question is horribly misinformed, but I can't say that's all too surprising as the media coverage in the West is by-and-large skewed to favor Israel. The first thing you should know about the state of Israel (that you aren't likely to learn from major media outlets) is that their government is just barely democratic. The culture and politics of the country are controlled by religious leaders from the Ultra-Orthodox sect of Judaism. This is why there have been legal battles in recent years over the rights of homosexuals and challenges to traditional Jewish religious law (e.g. whether or not it's illegal to drive your car on a Saturday). The second thing you need to know is that Israel is not an innocent victim in the current conflict. If anything, they have been actively oppressing Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank through military force, police action, and colonial expansion. You may hear from media outlets about Palestinian rocket attacks being fired from Gaza into Israel, resulting in the death of a few Israeli soldiers, but how much do you hear about the Israeli response to these attacks? By the nature of your question, I'm assuming not much. In 1994, Israel "officially" turned control of the Gaza Strip over to the Palestinians. However, to this day Israel maintains control of Gaza's borders, including their coastline and airspace, and has authority over any persons or goods trying to enter or leave Gaza. They have used this authority to stifle the flow of humanitarian aid, medical supplies, and even food to the Palestinians. In 2007 Israel set up a naval blockade of Gaza, limiting the Palestinians' ability to trade and virtually destroying their fishing industry. In February 2008 rocket attacks from Gaza prompted Israel to launch an airstrike. In response to the 3 Israelis killed by rockets (2 soldiers and one civilian), the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) killed 110 Palestinians, 45 of whom were civilians. Members of the Palestinian parliament and ministers of government were also arrested by the IDF. In June 2008, the Egyptian government convinced Israel and the Palestinian government to sign a six-month truce. In November 2008, Israel sent tanks and bulldozers into Gaza to close a tunnel they claimed could be used for abductions. Palestinian resistance resulted in 6 Palestinian deaths and four wounded Israelis. This set off a chain of events leading to the 22-day "Gaza War". Later in November 2008, Israel closed their blockade of the Gaza coastline, preventing the Palestinians from receiving fuel, food, and medical supplies among other necessities. The situation in Gaza grew so desperate that Palestinians broke through the border wall separating Gaza from Egypt in order to get humanitarian aid. In December 2008, Israel launched official military operations in Gaza, beginning the 22-day conflict. Airstrikes in Gaza damaged or destroyed tens of thousands of homes, 15 hospitals, almost ten thousand farms, 800 water wells, United Nations warehouses, part of the Islamic University, an elementary school run by the UN, and governmental and police buildings. Ground invasion of Gaza began in early January 2009. In response, Palestinians fired just over 750 rockets and mortars in Israel. Israel announced a cease fire in mid-January. Human rights groups put the total toll of the conflict at 1400 Palestinian deaths, 700-900 of which were civilians, and 300 of which were children. Only 13 Israelis were killed, including 3 civilians and 4 Israeli soldiers killed by "friendly fire". In the wake of the conflict, the Israeli blockade of Gaza has prevented humanitarian and economic support from entering the area, making it difficult if not impossible for the Palestinians to rebuild. So as you can see, Israel has already "bombed the hell out of Palestine" and done so repeatedly. This is no longer an intellectual debate over what the Jewish people deserve for the centuries of oppression they suffered at the hands of Europeans. This is case of an occupying power ruthlessly oppressing the people living under its control. This is not to say I think the Palestinians are innocent victims either. They have shown a brash disregard for the lives of Israelis in turn, but the scales of the atrocities committed are not even close to being equal. Both sides have been cited for war crimes and crimes against humanity, and both sides have some responsibility to bring this conflict to an end. *Source Note: Many of the specific numbers on casualties and conflicts were taken from Wikipedia.
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Post by The Monster on Apr 12, 2010 20:43:32 GMT -5
I think both side should forget their pasts and take the Nelson Madella approach towards life.
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Post by IMAGINARYphilosophy on Apr 12, 2010 21:07:19 GMT -5
Okay if you gonna call bull then link it! I have never in my life seen a god damn single piece of evidence that would call on the israelis as genocidal maniacs! Maybe not genocidal maniacs, but see my above post for proof that Israel has no problem killing hundreds of Palestinians whenever they want. Not... Palestinians. I think you're confusing them with Islamic fundamentalist organizations like Al'Qaeda, which are primarily funded by powers in Iran and Saudi Arabia. And the Egyptians had it before them. And the Mesopotamians had it before them. And even before the dawn of civilization, I'm sure some nomadic tribes had claim to the territory. Heck, if you want to follow that logic, then the entire United States of America and most of Canada should be handed back to the Native Americans because they were there first. It had a name before it was called Israel. And that WHOLE REGION is made up of lands sacred to Muslims and Christians, too. Let me build an analogy: Imagine soldiers with automatic weapons were stationed around your home and you were told you could not leave. Those soldiers stop people from coming to your home, so you can't get food or medicine. You plead for help, shouting to anyone who passes by, but no one will listen. Eventually you become so frustrated that you are being held prisoner in your own home for no reason that you punch one of the soldiers and give him a bloody nose. The soldiers then kill a member of your family. Would you say those soldiers are just "defending themselves" because you struck first?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2010 3:42:46 GMT -5
@imaginaryphilosophy, thanks for explaining that further.
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bye bye moon
Moon
The way i look at the world, would make you go blind
Posts: 192
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Post by bye bye moon on Apr 13, 2010 22:11:48 GMT -5
Okay if you gonna call bull then link it! I have never in my life seen a god damn single piece of evidence that would call on the israelis as genocidal maniacs! Maybe not genocidal maniacs, but see my above post for proof that Israel has no problem killing hundreds of Palestinians whenever they want. Yes, because Palestinians have no problem in killing Israelis whenever THEY want. Not... Palestinians. I think you're confusing them with Islamic fundamentalist organizations like Al'Qaeda, which are primarily funded by powers in Iran and Saudi Arabia. No, am thinking Palestinians. In recent years, they have had several terrorist attacks, of course am not confusing them with al qaeda but most of them resort to terrorism as "reasonable means" And the Egyptians had it before them. And the Mesopotamians had it before them. And even before the dawn of civilization, I'm sure some nomadic tribes had claim to the territory. Heck, if you want to follow that logic, then the entire United States of America and most of Canada should be handed back to the Native Americans because they were there first. Well that makes no sense because Egyptians, and Mesoptamia , and the Nomads had NOTHING to do with each other. Palestines DECIDED to move away from the Israelis once, God denied them entry to the holy land. And they DECIDED to walk away from that land because they obeyed religious leaders. What i ment is that they used to be ONE, and before Palestine got "consumed" by Israel, it was ACTUALLY israel, so THEY were the ones, who closed in on them, and ELIMINATED them for almost a whole century! It had a name before it was called Israel. And that WHOLE REGION is made up of lands sacred to Muslims and Christians, too. Well... Christian , Jewish, and Musilms religious lands, are pretty much the same ones. If you take Jesus out of the picture they all go back to the first testament, and well Israel was technically there first, ALL their religious sacred lands are there, unlike Palestinians that after the fourth generation of Abraham drove themselves AWAY, and built themselves their OWN land. So i dont really see your argument there. Let me build an analogy: Imagine soldiers with automatic weapons were stationed around your home and you were told you could not leave. Those soldiers stop people from coming to your home, so you can't get food or medicine. You plead for help, shouting to anyone who passes by, but no one will listen. Eventually you become so frustrated that you are being held prisoner in your own home for no reason that you punch one of the soldiers and give him a bloody nose. The soldiers then kill a member of your family. Would you say those soldiers are just "defending themselves" because you struck first? Okay ill give you an anolgy Imagine you are in your house, one day a guy comes along and kicks you out. Does not even let you stay in a room just kicks you out. Then you call out for help and the mayor decides he is going to help you and, he gives you whole family one room in the entire house. As you grow older and your family grows, you take another room, and another room until you have say 4 rooms, and the guy that INVADED your home has 4 rooms. Now not only are you being generous by standing and letting them have 4 ROOMS! But, also when your neighbor gets cocky and slaps you around, ALL DAY LONG, so youll leave you have to give explanations on why you went and shot one of your invaders kids. If only he would stop SLAPING you, then you would stop SHOOTING at his wifes clear nuff?
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Post by IMAGINARYphilosophy on Apr 14, 2010 0:47:33 GMT -5
bye bye moonI think a big part of your misunderstanding is that you are equating modern Palestinians with Biblical depictions of Palestinians and modern Israelis with Biblical depictions of Israelites. Without even going into a discussion of whether or not the Bible is historically accurate, I think the world is better served by looking at the situation we are living with here and now rather than at events that may have occurred thousands of years ago. If your position is that the Israelis are justified in keeping the Palestinians imprisoned in their own land and killing them at a ratio of 100 Palestinians for every 1 Israeli, and that this justification comes from their religious teachings about wrongs they suffered thousands of years ago, I can only assert that your position is inexcusably depraved and based on no rational evaluation of the facts.
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Post by IMAGINARYphilosophy on Apr 14, 2010 1:00:10 GMT -5
But, also when your neighbor gets cocky and slaps you around, ALL DAY LONG, so youll leave you have to give explanations on why you went and shot one of your invaders kids. If only he would stop SLAPING you, then you would stop SHOOTING at his wifes clear nuff? I question why you think the Israelis being "slapped" justifies them "shooting" back. The obvious inequity boggles my mind as to how you think an escalation in violence is a reasonable response.
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Post by stephen5000 on Apr 14, 2010 18:05:22 GMT -5
It seems most of what I hear has a distinct anti-Israel stance to it: it's either pr-Palestine or pro-Lebanon or whatever. There always seem to be protests going on to oppose Israel latest atrocity. This is all the while our governments tend to take a pro-Israel view.
Where's the truth?!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2010 8:56:07 GMT -5
^^I don't agree with that. I think both me and Imaginary philosphy (and others) are neutral about this. Both sides are doing wrong and their actions aren't correct in any way.
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