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Post by Trey on May 2, 2010 23:21:26 GMT -5
Avatar... It's my favorite movie right now! Most movies don't have an original plot line. Juss sayin' Avatar is like a futuristic "Dances With Wolves"
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kadie
Moon
"You don't need a licence to drive a sandwhich!"
Posts: 240
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Post by kadie on May 3, 2010 4:04:01 GMT -5
I've never read JRR Tolken, sorry. kadie, how the HELL does it have unhealthy elements?! I think u misused the term. if unhealthy do u mean, clumsy, sarcastic, werewolf-&-vampire loving girl? becuase, ya ud be right on the dot. but enlighten me, please. I would lovee to know your version of 'unhealthy' Ok, Im glad we got the whle 'opinion' thing delt with. :\ I said the books show unhealhy behaviors. What you did is take what I said out of context. By unhealthy behaviours I mean the book shows that it is perfectly alright to stay in an abusive relationship so long as the abusive man or women says they love you. It also shows that Jealousy in a light that doesn't highlight how wrong this is. It also shows that it's fine to stay with a man who has scarred you face so long as he loves you. It portrays female characters in a very bad light - I can think of only one example when a female character is not seen as inferior to the men around her. It suggests that abstinence is a good thing That is what I mean by unhealthy behaviors. Anyway to get back on topic I've not really read much other fantasy, however I would recommend "Wicked; The life and times of the wicked witch of the west" by Gregory Maguire and the rest of his books about OZ, although I'm not entirely sure if that counts as fantasy or not. But it's still a good read, challenging, but good. x
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Post by Trey on May 3, 2010 6:43:40 GMT -5
By unhealthy behaviours I mean the book shows that it is perfectly alright to stay in an abusive relationship so long as the abusive man or women says they love you. Let's remember that this is a relationship between a frickin human and a vampire. It also shows that Jealousy in a light that doesn't highlight how wrong this is. Jakob is a werewolf; an enemy of the vampires. I'd understand if my hypothetical girlfriend didn't want me going to a titty bar. It also shows that it's fine to stay with a man who has scarred you face so long as he loves you. If you said this to the loving couple described in the story, they'd rip your head off xD It's not a fair judgement. It portrays female characters in a very bad light - I can think of only one example when a female character is not seen as inferior to the men around her. And, I can think of several. Alice, Rosalie, Esme, Victoria, Jane, and I think there's a couple more. Oh, and of course you're going to be inferior to those who can run at the speed of sound while maintaining a thirst for your blood. !!!DO NOT CLICK THIS IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED THE SERIES!!! btw, Bella doesn't seem inferior to the rest when she becomes a vampire It suggests that abstinence is a good thing Well, between a human and a blood thirsty vampire, I'd say that's a VERY good thing That is what I mean by unhealthy behaviors. Anyway to get back on topic I've not really read much other fantasy, however I would recommend "Wicked; The life and times of the wicked witch of the west" by Gregory Maguire and the rest of his books about OZ, although I'm not entirely sure if that counts as fantasy or not. But it's still a good read, challenging, but good. x I'm starting to think that you just really love to hate the series, like most people do.
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kadie
Moon
"You don't need a licence to drive a sandwhich!"
Posts: 240
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Post by kadie on May 3, 2010 7:11:03 GMT -5
I don't just love to hate the series - This is what I think of the series, this is my opinon of the series and I am aloud to say what I think of the series. If you want to go ahead and like the series that up to you. I just think people should be aware that these messages ARE in the books and they should keep that in mind when reading them!
As for all the female charecters you mentioned they are all, at one point or another shown as being inferior to the males around them. The one example I was thinking of was Jane.
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Post by stephen5000 on May 3, 2010 9:05:03 GMT -5
I was wondering what people thought about the Twilight series in relation to another recent teen romance fantasy, The Mortal Instruments trilogy by Cassandra Clare.
The Mortal Instruments is primarily a romance, but the plot is driven by the fantasy elements. It also approaches the treatment of vampires and werewolves and the like in a manner similar to racism. This series features a strong female lead character.
While I have only seen the Twilight movies, and not read the books, Bella does not seem like a particularly strong character. (But maybe it's just my prejudice (sexism?) that makes me prefer strong female characters.)
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Juno
Meteor
I heart...Twilight!!=p
Posts: 86
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Post by Juno on May 3, 2010 10:34:55 GMT -5
Ok so, Kadie, let me get this straight... U think, that Edward is violent to Bella? Ok so, Trey was totally right, THIS IS A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN A VAMPIRE AND A HUMAN! And, remember, (I should tell this to myself in this debate) it IS just a book. And SM wanted to write this.
What messages are there that we have to keep in mind? Enlighten us all, please. And yes, sure, there are some times in the book were women are infioror to men. Ya, because lots of them are VAMPIRES OR WEREWOLVES, if u haven't noticed
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kadie
Moon
"You don't need a licence to drive a sandwhich!"
Posts: 240
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Post by kadie on May 3, 2010 10:56:57 GMT -5
Ok so, Kadie, let me get this straight... U think, that Edward is violent to Bella? Ok so, Trey was totally right, THIS IS A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN A VAMPIRE AND A HUMAN! And, remember, (I should tell this to myself in this debate) it IS just a book. And SM wanted to write this. What messages are there that we have to keep in mind? Enlighten us all, please. And yes, sure, there are some times in the book were women are infioror to men. Ya, because lots of them are VAMPIRES OR WEREWOLVES, if u haven't noticed Yes, the relationship in the book is between a vampire and a human however you need to remember that this book is being read by people who are at an age where they are very impresionable and this needs to be taken into account. Also the bible is just a book, the Qu'ran is just a book, The Origin Of Species is just a book, 1984 is just a book, The Da Vinci Code is just a book, The Communist Manifesto is just a book. Yet look at the effect all this works have had on our society and how much a part of our society they have become. Books are important!!!! And whether or not the women who are portrayed as inferior are vampires or werewolves is unimportant, the message is still the same. And it's a very bad message to be exposing to the younger generation and it's quite frankly very worrying to me that you can't see this.
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Post by Trey on May 3, 2010 12:02:04 GMT -5
oscargodfrey, are you this flamboyant irl?
Lol
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Juno
Meteor
I heart...Twilight!!=p
Posts: 86
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Post by Juno on May 3, 2010 19:58:58 GMT -5
omg, Trey. Im a girl! the reason my name is oscargodfrey, is because thats my brother. umm...he died. godfrey isnt my last name, it was his, he got married... but whatever. Im not gay, just FYI, im completly straight and female.
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Post by amethyst11ln on May 3, 2010 20:47:52 GMT -5
I'm not saying there aren't any, I'm just curious: what good messages are portrayed in Twilight?
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Post by prettypenguin on May 3, 2010 21:26:59 GMT -5
And, I can think of several. Alice, Rosalie, Esme, Victoria, Jane, and I think there's a couple more. Oh, and of course you're going to be inferior to those who can run at the speed of sound while maintaining a thirst for your blood. !!!DO NOT CLICK THIS IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED THE SERIES!!! btw, Bella doesn't seem inferior to the rest when she becomes a vampire Alright just to address this. You have a very calm dog who doesn't jump around. Is just overall boring. You put a cute little hat on him and it is still a boring dog, the dog just has a hat now. Saying "Well she changes at the end!" doesn't mean she's not overly boring for the entire series. Everyone likes to say Alice is more interesting when really she's just less boring than Bella. "She's more powerful and strong willed" when compared to Bella, yes. I tried to read the books when they were first coming out. I think that eclipse hadn't come out when I tried to read them. I didn't like the style of writing meyers used. She wasn't engaging for me. A girl who has trouble with her family and moves to a new place where everyone loves her but she feels alone. So unique. :/ Now, I'm of the opinion that one should at least try to understand something before having an opinion on it. So, so far I've seen both movies and tried to read the first book and I've tried to look into as much about the book as I can to be respectful as I can to those who worship it. But that's just it, the worshiping of the series. It is not by far the best series ever as so many claim. There are many awkward sentences and lots of repetitiveness that does nothing to develop the story. The characters are pretty blank, hardly dynamic at all. I did not feel that Bella as a character was interesting at all. Which is why I was not compelled to continue reading the series. What I did notice is that Bella was more of a blank state so the reader could personify themselves onto her. I also didn't like how weak it made Bella seem; emotionally that is. I'm of the fan of strong female types. Even if it's something more supernaturally related. Characters like Buffy, Anita Blake and well many other vampire-esc heroines. Teenagers, despite what they personally believe, are very easily impressionable. More so in the early teenage years. If they read a book that has obvious flaws and worship and idolize the characters then they will personify them in themselves. They wont take charge and leave that guy who puts them through hell because he doesn't want to hurt them when his not hurting does more harm. That's a type of psychological abuse. Now don't get me wrong, I appreciate Meyers work. She has picked up on the literary storm that was Harry Potter and kept young kids reading. This is a major plus in my book since well, I love books! It's just the worshiping that is being done by these young (usually) girls. They seem to not be able to see the obvious negative sides of these characters and relationships and they get swept up in it. Anyway, On note of other books: I'm a fan of The Anita Blake Series by Laurell K. Hamilton up until about book 11 or 12, I forget. The author remarried and her life and writing just changed, and not for the better. Her earlier books though are great reads and very engaging. If you like the whole Vampire werewolf thing, I recommend these. I'm a Dragonlance fan. I'll choose me some Dragonlance over RA Salvatore any day xP The obsidian Chronicles by Lawrence Watt-Evans. If you ever wanted a gritty realistic fantasy story with magic and dragons, I highly recommend these books. The only problem is they are sometimes hard to find in local stores. George R. R. Martin books I've been hearing are amazing but only if you want books with more political (like kings queens etc) themes. They are so amazing that HBO has picked them up and are currently filming a series for it! Which I'm highly looking forward too. Ever since Battlestar Galactica there has been a distinct lack of good, engaging fantasy/scifi shows on. I haven't read the books yet but I plan too shortly in the future.
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Post by krzych32 on May 3, 2010 22:24:35 GMT -5
Juno, so.....wanna go out some time?
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Post by jcunningham23 on May 3, 2010 22:45:46 GMT -5
Harry Potter fo sho
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Post by DubiousKing on May 4, 2010 0:41:09 GMT -5
I'm a Dragonlance fan. I'll choose me some Dragonlance over RA Salvatore any day xP I used to read Dragonlance a couple years back, but they never really clicked with me. On the other hand, the first Salvatore book I read was The Thousand Orcs, and I was absolutely hooked. I honestly think that it's because of the characters he creates (the Bouldershoulder brothers, Jarlaxle, Cadderly) and the intense and detailed action sequences he writes.
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Juno
Meteor
I heart...Twilight!!=p
Posts: 86
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Post by Juno on May 4, 2010 10:29:36 GMT -5
@krzyck32 ummmmmmmmmm.....how?
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Nakor
Star
Non-Prophet
Posts: 991
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Post by Nakor on May 4, 2010 13:37:57 GMT -5
I loved the Dragonlance Chronicles and Dragonlance Legends trilogies (especially the former) but not so much the others in that world. I really didn't like the add-on trilogy that started with Dragons of Summer Flame either.
I find that Forgotten Realms has a better selection of books from random authors than Dragonlance -- perhaps because there is a little more room for creative freedom in that universe.
Anyone who likes R.A. Salvatore should make sure to check out his other series, The Crimson Shadow. It's not the same fantasy epic style of his Forgotten Realms books; rather, it's more of a good-versus-evil fantasy with robin hood themes and a healthy dose of humour and fun mixed in. Not that deep, but a fun read nonetheless.
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Post by prettypenguin on May 5, 2010 0:47:17 GMT -5
Richard A Knaack is omg amazing! He writes a lot of the Warcraft lore books and well tons of stuff. He's omigawd amazing.
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Post by DubiousKing on May 5, 2010 1:46:08 GMT -5
I find that Forgotten Realms has a better selection of books from random authors than Dragonlance -- perhaps because there is a little more room for creative freedom in that universe. Especially because if the author decides to kill off a god for some reason, there's about 500 others to take its place.
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D.S. Tucker
Meteorite
We are all made of star-stuff
Posts: 17
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Post by D.S. Tucker on May 5, 2010 2:50:03 GMT -5
I work at a used book store, where we have to order most of the Twilight books new in order to satisfy customer needs. The only thing I can say I really hate is that most of the fans tend to be middle-age housewives that will spend 5-10 minutes at the register as they buy the book... explaining to me in detail that the books really aren't that GOOD, but they're INTERESTING. "You know, light reading, but I'm into a lot of real hard-hitting literary stuff too." Hey guys, like it if you want--I really don't care. Just don't hold up the line or waste my time. Thank you. Also: www.cracked.com/funny-36-twilight/NOTE: definitely not suited for younger readers. As well as being super-hilarious.
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Juno
Meteor
I heart...Twilight!!=p
Posts: 86
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Post by Juno on May 5, 2010 10:27:42 GMT -5
ok even tho Im not a middle age housewife, and a huge fan of Twilight, thats HILARIOUS! omg, hahaha eww tho the BD part with the delivering the baby! very funny tho!
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